Jim’s Tech Talk
By Jim Langley
Way back in 2009 Shimano introduced their first electric-shifting Dura-Ace 7970 Di2 groupset. Di2 is short for Digital Integrated Intelligence (Di2 = DII, get it?).
In case you haven’t tried or followed the electric shifting trend, I’ll explain what DII means in terms of advantages (feel free to scroll ahead if you’re already electrified).
I’ll try to explain based on today’s Shimano e-shifters since things have changed a lot in the years since Di2 debuted. We now also have SRAM’s amazing eTap shifting, which is wireless, but I’m mainly talking about Shimano today. Late breaking news: Shimano just announced their Dura-Ace 9200 and Ultegra 8100 groups that are semi-wireless. AND, maybe even more shocking, that they will no longer be making mechanical Dura-Ace and Ultegra parts!
Derailleurs with Brains
DII is what makes electric shifting worth considering for anyone interested in easier, more precise and quicker shifting. Integrated Intelligence basically means that electronic brains inside the derailleur(s) “read” what chainring and cassette cog combinations the chain is on as you shift and they automatically adjust the derailleurs’ positions accordingly. You can also choose built-in shifting modes.
Advantage: Never Trim the Front Derailleur
In case it’s Greek to you, “trimming a front derailleur” means to move its lever just a little (not enough to shift) in order to nudge the derailleur cage away from the chain and stop the chain from rubbing, a common annoying noise when the chain’s on the smallest/smallest and biggest/biggest chainring/cog combinations (sometimes called “cross chaining”).
With electric shifting, you never have to worry about trimming to stop rubbing noises because the front derailleur is smart enough to move away from the chain on its own as you shift into a gear that would rub otherwise. Once you have it you wonder how you lived without it. (It’s only fair to point out that mechanical auto-trim shifting exists, too – and goes back decades; but it’s not on every system and not as foolproof.)
Advantage: Never Miss an Important Shift
Have you ever had a cable derailleur hesitate and refuse to shift just as you tried to hit your smallest cog to go for a town line sprint? I sure have and it’s frustrating to say the least.
Well, Shimano’s electric rear derailleur will hit that 11-tooth hyperdrive letting you go for glory every time because it overshifts! How can it overshift without throwing the chain, you ask? It’s the magic of Di2.
The brain recognizes that it’s about to throw the chain and it instantly corrects itself, backing up to where it belongs, directly under the 11 tooth cog.
Advantage: Never Miss a Gear
An example of even more-advanced Shimano electric gear changing is their Synchro Shift mode. This actually allows sequentially hitting every gear on your bike (such as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on) – and doing so while operating only one shift lever.
In this mode, the front and rear derailleurs can even shift simultaneously, which is pretty amazing – and fun. It also means a double-chainring bike will shift essentially the same way 1X drivetrains shift.
Early Adopter
That’s not a complete list of advantages but should give you an idea why e-shifting has made its way onto lots of bicycles. I was eager to try it when it first appeared and bought a groupset for my time trial bike. I believe it made me faster (my race results showed it) by allowing shifting without changing my hand positions (which creates air drag and slows you down).
Since it worked for me on the TT rig, I now have Di2 on a road bike, too. That bike was purchased used so it turns out that I’m running the original Dura-Ace Di2 from 2009, not the latest version (but I have ridden the latest Di2 with Synchro Shift a lot).
Short on longevity (pun intended)?
Up until a couple of weeks ago, my at-least 7 year-old Di2 (about how old the bike is) was shifting flawlessly. Then the front derailleur started making an awful creaking sound when I shifted, like an old rusty door hinge. Since I had been riding on dirt roads, I thought grit had contaminated the derailleur pivots.
I cleaned the pivots and lubed them but the noise persisted. Then the derailleur balked when I tried to shift from my small to large chainring. Looking down, I could see it trying to push the chain so I reached down and gave it an assist with my finger. That did the trick. It’s a risky move but I carefully shifted like that for a while.
In the meantime I reached out to Shimano and learned that my front derailleur’s symptoms meant that it was worn out and needed replacing.
Questions Raised
The whole story of my worn-out derailleur and replacing and adjusting it is in the video here. It was a fun project and I hope you enjoy it.
I’m not writing about and didn’t make a video about this project to complain or to run down Shimano or e-shifting. Rather I’m hoping to help anyone else who might have a Di2 front derailleur that starts acting up like mine.
Plus, I think it raises some interesting questions. I have my opinions. But I would be interested in what other riders think – and both those of you with electric shifting and those without.
Please read the questions that follow and then comment to share with the rest of us. Feel free to raise other issues you believe add value. Already on my video there’s been some interesting feedback. I think the conversation will be helpful for anyone who’s thinking of trying e-shifting. Thanks!
Electric Shifting Questions
• Have you had an electric derailleur fail and if so, how did it fail? Which brand and model?
• How long should electric shifters last (keeping in mind the long lifespan and low cost of mechanical derailleurs)?
• Do you think electric shifting is overpriced, or maybe a better question, is it ever coming down to affordable prices the way costs rapidly drop on most electronics?
• How long should electric derailleurs be warrantied?
• Should electric derailleurs be repairable/rebuildable (new motors, electronics, etc.)?
10,109 Daily Rides in a Row
Jim Langley is RBR’s Technical Editor. He has been a pro mechanic and cycling writer for more than 40 years. He’s the author of Your Home Bicycle Workshop in the RBR eBookstore. Check out his “cycling aficionado” website at http://www.jimlangley.net, his Q&A blog and updates at Twitter. Jim’s cycling streak ended in February 2022 with a total of 10,269 consecutive daily rides (28 years, 1 month and 11 days of never missing a ride). Click to read Jim’s full bio.
I have had SRAM 2X AXS for a year now and am not sold on electronic shifting. I don’t like worrying about keeping batteries charged. I find the shift times seem slower than my old Campy 3X 10 speed. As an older rider the 4 smallest cogs are never used so I have an expensive 8 speed. With my old Campy or Shimano I could simply buy a different cassette, but from what I see they are not available for SRAM. Unlike the statements to the contrary I have had chain rub due to front derailleur changing setting for no apparent reason. Occasionally I get weird shifts. The auto mode that shifts both derailleurs cannot be adjusted to the pattern that I would like. It took a number of trips to the shop to (mostly) eliminate chain drop. Rotors have been changed out, fortunately under warranty. Parts are expensive.
My system is a 2016 DI2 Ultegra setup on a Road/Gravel bike. Spot Denver Zephur. Approximately 25,000 miles. Love the setup. Works flawlessly. Hope to upgrade to the new Ultegra for the new features.
First, am appalled that Shimano would be discontinuing production of all mechanical shifting components. In my area (Maryland), there are so many mechanical bike set-ups. Far more than Di. I have a bike with Sram mechanical and a bike with Di. The Di bike is 1 year old and a few months ago, when I went to shift the front from big to small, there was a strange noise and then a scraping sound. I stopped immediately and a small spring in the back of the derailleur had mysteriously popped out of place. It took removing chain and pulling off derailleur to put the spring back in place (at home in shop). Now I have lost confidence in it and am worried it would happen again. I also do not think the Di shifts as quickly as my mechanical and the front Di always has an annoying sound when shifting – especially small to big. I think Di should be made well enough to last for 5 years – but I understand the motor is probably the achilles heel. The bike shop recommended using E-Shift spray on the derailleurs to keep them clean, which I do. Think of the cost and inconvenience for people who want to hold onto their bikes and not have to buy a new bike (with DI) that have s mechanical part break and are unable to replace that part because it is not made/unavailable.
Except that Shimano aren’t doing that. Mechanical Dura Ace and Ultegra are gone. There are still umpteen variants available if you want mechanical.
Be wary of wireless shifting systems. or of considering it. as a feature.. Wireless systems are easier for equipment installers, but they have less operational reliability. The frequencies used for wireless communication are shared by a wide range of other types of users – including equipment used by the bicyclists themselves, and there WILL be interference problems – guaranteed. Many times interference symptoms will be unexplainable, erratic, and unreproducible.. There are ways to engineer products that can minimize such occurrences, but the cost of equipment will measurably increase, and battery life will be measurably degraded.
One further note: The article seems to be leaving Campagnolo and their EPS out of the discussion. Since the article also mentions SRAM, was this intentional? Is Campagnolo going out of business?
Thanks for asking about Campagnolo, RAH. To explain, the only reason I didn’t mention Campagnolo EPS is because I have not used it or worked on it. I also don’t ride with anyone who uses it and the only time I’ve seen it in the “wild” is at bicycle shows in Campy’s booth. Since I don’t have any. real experience with it, I didn’t mention it, but they are still Campagnolo, perhaps the most loved component brand of all time and I’ve heard EPS is an excellent system.
Thanks again,
Jim
Jim, I have Campagnolo EPS V3 on my Colnago C64. I have nearly 7,000 miles of usage with this system, and am quite pleased with the performance and dependability/durability of the system.
The shifting of the front derailleur very much impresses me with the speed, efficiency, and EASE of the shift process. The rear shifting is a step above the mechanical; due to the ability to do all the multi-cog shifts with just the push and hold of a button. Granted, one can hold down the mechanical lever with ultra-shift and move 3-4 cogs, but you can move 10 cogs at a time with the EPS!
In closing the EPS rear shifting is good; but, the FRONT is FANTASTIC!!
Regards,
Mark
i’ll just stick with the old school ones that last 40 years or so
bonus, no batteries or charging
i have enough of that already
wle
Yes!
Had Di2 on my 2014 Trek Domane. Around 30,000 miles the lever broke inside the unit. The motor worked fine but it wasn’t connected to the anything. Had to replace the unit.
The same thing happened on my 2015 Trek 5.9 Madone with about 50,000 miles on it. Also had to replace the unit. Seems like that’s pretty good wear time for having that many miles of use.
I have a set of the first gen Ultegra Di2 with probably 30,000 miles. The front derailleur failed, but it was a mechanical failure (linkage arm broke) and easily replaced. I am sold on Shimano electric shifting, especially with a compact crank between the 50 and 34 is as you mention always perfect. Another benefit is all of the “tennis elbow” I attributed to using the right mechanical shifter went away very quickly when I installed the Di2.
Some specific answers to the questions:
1. I think it’s with the extra cost and my experience is the mechanical parts on the system will wear out first, which is no different from the mechanical group. Some things will wear faster than others. For example, there are fewer mechanical parts in the levers, but there is a lot more stress in the derailleurs due to the force the motors apply (which is why they shift so well).
2. It appears you can add newer parts to an older system as long as you pay attention to the firmware version (ie use the lowest common denominator), but I’m no expert. When I had to replace the front, I had no issues.
3. The place really wish I had electric shifting is on my bike I use for cyclocross. I have a SRAM 1x system and it sucks if there is any sort of mud as it shifts very badly. As mentioned above, the motors apply so much force, it will shift up AND down when muddy in CX a huge advantage when you are shifting every few seconds. However, I have resisted putting an electric GRX group on because I also use this bike for remote bikepacking and I think it’s risky to have something you can’t fix or easily hack in the wild.
Have not yet had issues with my front derailleur on my 2016 Cervelo R3, but as mentioned above, I do sometimes get the weird shifts, especially on hitting some quick but short uphills. This was a very interesting video that gave me some insight into how to adjust the derailleur. BTW really admire your very clean chain.
“BTW really admire your very clean chain”
Ha, ha, thanks for the laugh, McCycle. Yes, I should have cleaned it for the video – sorry!
I’m in agreement with what seems to be the majority of commenters here: I do not see any point to electric shifting and will never have it. And when I have used it in the past I did not like the sense of being ‘disconnected’ from my machine. I could add to the list of problems created by these things if they are not in perfect running order as when new, but I think this article makes a good start on that, and I sure would not shell out an EXTRA $2000 for this. I’d rather buy an extra top-quality used bike for the same money.! These devices are yet another way for manufacturers to grab some more dough and to fool unwary buyers into having the latest best thing. I would rather they focused on making TRUE improvements to the mechanics of the bike if possible. BTW, I have never had a front derailleur go bad on me, and some of mine are over 20 years old. In such a case, I can get another for around $80 not $400.
I have always been a Campagnolo rider and whenever that company issues a new version, there are really sound and substantial improvements in engineering. A bit like Porsche – they don’t change the ‘look’ or cosmetics of the car much, but with every new release, there are tangible performance benefits. (yes I do still have a few Shimano-based bikes, grudgingly, but always hated the ‘clothesline’ of cables out front and especially having to, click, click, click through each gear separately when you need to shift up or down 5 gears ..)
All the current transmission systems for bicycles still have all working parts hanging out from the bike and exposed to the elements – water, dirt, etc. I am waiting for someone to come up with a practical solution to this obvious flaw. Surely a sealed system with low friction and maybe even a sort of ‘constant velocity’ transmission can be devised for bicycles..? Meanwhile, I am happy making my mechanical adjustments on something I can actally see and feel while riding the bike.
I have run SRAM Red eTap for about four years now. The only issue I have had is a broken tab on a derailleur battery.
No interference issues from other wireless devices.
As for longevity, I would be happy with the lifespan you got out of your FD.
User repairable would be nice. Especially to replace things like nylon worn gears, which no one would expect to last forever.
PS. One area where wireless shines is on BreakAway / S&S coupled bikes. Two fewer cables to connect and disconnect is a plus.
I have no experience with eshifters, but as another commenter mentioned, I am very disappointed that Shimano will no longer support Dura-ace and Ultegra mechanical groups. And judging from your question of the day responses so far, I might not be alone. I am a recreational rider logging “only” a couple thousand miles a year. I have a 15 year old Ultegra mechanical 3×10 groupset that has performed perfectly for my needs with only routine maintenance.
I have original Ultegra Di2 on one of my Ridleys. I started having a problem with the big chainring limit setting.
No matter what I did with adjustment screws, I could not stop the derailleur from throwing the chain off the outside of the big ring.
I finally found a solution with a chain catcher that works on both inner and outer throws of the chain.
Another note about my Di2;
I find it very easy to make shifting mistakes with the Shimano system. The levers are so close that it makes it easy to hit the wrong lever and have the bike shift to the wrong gear. This is worse when I get tired or in the midst of a tough race.
I haven’t tried Campy electric, but if anything like their mechanical systems, to me it just makes more sense with the different levers.
i have two of the original Di2 units and have had 0 problems with either. I will never go back to the mechanical units, they have helped me tremendously and make my life on the bike much easier. Yes they are over priced. and likely not come down in price anytime soon.
I have eight bikes and just one with Di2 and that is a Giant Trinity time trial bike. I do like the e-shifting on that bike for racing but it has failed three times during races. Once, one of the rear cables came off. Easy fix as I reconnected it. Once one of the battery cables came loose. This was no doubt from having just charged it and while reinstalling it I must have pulled it out. Another easy fix. The other time was at the turn on a 40k TT when the rear just stopped working. Turns out it needed some type of update which I wasn’t aware was needed. The shop told me it happens and that they own some type of tool/software to make to the upgrade. I’m still not sure how often this needs to be done. I rode 12 miles in a 54/15 which kind of didn’t work well on a rolling course. My max rpm’s going to the finish line were 125.
All of my other bikes have cable shifting. Other than some minor adjustments over some 360,000 miles I’ve never had a cable fail. I don’t plan on changing over to all electronic shifting. I think being forced in that direction by the component manufacturers would be a mistake on their part. We tend to want to make something so simple like the bike more and more complicated.
Got almost 40,000 miles on Dura-Ace FD-9070 and started making exact same noise yours did. Ultimately, I had to push it over as well. After a ride if I left it on the large chainring then shifted to the small, it would shift after that but made a terrible crunching racket. I also bought a new Dura-Ace 9070 on ebay, lucky to have found it since many Shimano parts are disappearing from ebay as well. At least Shimano will be back on track in 2023.
I have first generation Campy Record EPS on a 2012 Collage C59. It did not like running/shifting Rotor chain rings. Other than that experiment I have had the following experience: I’ve never gotten less than 3250 km / 2o20 mi on a charge. I experienced one dropped chain until this year (March 2012 – August 2021) when I’ve experienced 2 chain drops and 2 ghost shifts. Shop spent 15 minutes running the reset / initial set up routine (when I was told that this would fix the problem I could have easily done this myself – its clear and easy to do following the user’s manual instructions – but since I asked the shop to find the problem I felt they should get the business to reset it. It shifts pretty well if you don’t mind virtually flawless shifting (I tried a shift from the second largest to the largest cog going up a 6% climb while standing (I know I should do this but I thought I’d try it once). It worked hard to do it but it gave me a good shift just a little slower than if I was sitting and backed off on the pressure a bit. The Campy system uses a lever and a thumb button on each hood and I have found it virtually impossible to miss a shift with even very thick winter gloves or with very numb hands. My wife has a similar system and finds that she has a much better experience shifting with the electronic system. Am I going back to mechanical? No. But I might change when someone comes up with mind control shifting and braking.
All this is nice but DI dosn”t work for a 3x. It would be great on a tandum to get from a 53×11 to the 30×30 on a roller.
I bought a Trek Project One back in 2011 with the Di2 components….used it outdoors to the tune of about 7000 miles a year until the pandemic. I have it on my Wahoo trainer and it continues to work flawlessly. That does include numerous chain replacements as well as a couple rear cassette changes for better climbing gearing as I have aged. Had a Seven built in about 2007 also using Shimano Di2. Had a bike store master mechanic install an MTB rear derrailleur and a pieplate gearset, again…… for climbing….. and proceeded to cross chain so much that I wore out both the rear cassette and front crankset…..but after replacement and a return to more practical gearing, the Di2 system continues to work flawlessly. Not that it’s relevant but have used it for two vEverests any many basecamp climbs……
Stupid Shimano, or maybe I should now call them Shamano! I can’t believe they’re going to stop selling mechanical Dura Ace or Ultegra so they can force us to buy their electric system, a system where you have to replace a $160 battery every 3 years. You know what? SCREW YOU Shamano! The next time I need a derailleur I’ll either buy SRAM or Campy, heck even Microshift is stepping up their game, but no more Shamano for me!!
Point 1 – Totally agree, no more mechanical DA or Ultegra, WOW unbelievable. That leaves the current 105 as the only mechanical 11-speed going forward (at least for the near term). I agree, Shamano is telling you, either fork over for our new groupsets or go somewhere else.
Point 2 – Looking at the pricing, the DA R9200 groupset alone is more than $4,000, the new Ultegra $2,400. Like ASSOS and SILCA, are they pricing themselves out of the market?
Interesting comments. I own 4 road bikes. Two have Ultegra Di2, one has SRAM Force 2×10 mechanical, and my newest has Shim 105 w/ hydraulic disks. They all shift perfectly.
All derailleurs wear out eventually. Inclement conditions shorten lifespan.
Most common failure on the road is a torn, jammed or broken mechanical shift cable. When this is for the FD you can continue your ride, but when it is the RD you’re in trouble. This, for me, was the deciding factor on upgrading to electric shifting. For riding near home mechanical is fine, saves $$. But for reliability far from home, electric is preferable.
Try the current Shim 105 mechanical and you’ll not miss Ultegra or DA. Replace worn parts with 105 and save money.
Must sharply disagree that electronic shifting is more reliable than mechanical. Both can be UNreliable if not well maintained, so let’s assume that is not the issue. I ride 3-5,000 mi/yr on typically bad Midwest roads. In well over 50,000 (documented) miles I’ve never a mechanical FD or RD fail or had a cable fail (and I am NOT an OCD annual cable-changer). OTOH- I have seen a number of riders with e-shifting trouble on rides (including dead batteries- some due to forgetting to recharge) despite (even now) most folks still riding riding mechanical. Plenty of reports on the web of riders having their battery go dead unexpectedly. And I’ve personally had an e-shifter RD fail (on a bike borrowed from a friend who takes impeccable care of his gear, FWIW). I would always pick a well-maintained mechanical drivetrain when riding cross-country or far from home.
If Shimano is indeed dropping mechanical DA & Ultegra, they will likely soon drop 105 mechanical as well. Sad that buyers will no longer have that option 🙁
Agree recent 105 mechanical is outstanding, except that I prefer Ultegra FD. Smoother and more robust construction.
As far as price and performance? E-shifting on a tri or time trial bike is a potential advantage (minimal hand movement in tuck position) but I do not see it as a major advantage on a road bike. Just more complexity & $$$ (including periodic battery replacements). FD shifts do seem a bit crisper with Di2, but most find mechanical rear shifting is still a bit faster (plus ability to jump multiple gears in one motion).
Since for 99% of my riding I have dispensed with shifters, derailleurs, and cassettes and am using simply a track hub and a track cog to replace them, most of this discussion is wasted on me. However, I can say I have had very few mechanical problems related to this arrangement. But that’s just me.
Notwithstanding, I have two geared road bikes, the best of which is about 15 years old, and both have 9 Speed Ultegra mechanical shifting. I”m disappointed that Shimano will stop making mechanical parts, and I can only hope some company somewhere can manufacture suitable compatible knock-off components at a reasonable price and make a living at it.
I’ve owned two bikes with Ultegra Di2. When I bought the first one, no one else I rode with had electronic shifting; now most of my cycling friend have either Di2 or SRAM eTap. I wouldn’t have anything else. I never think about shifting now, it’s so easy that my fingers seem to flick the buttons without conscious thought, with the result that I shift all the time, on every slight change of grade or wind. I suppose the downside is that I wear out chains and cassettes faster because of all the shifting but that’s a small price to pay for the benefits of fast shifts under load, not taking pressure off doing a shift on a hill, which I had to do with mechanical, no chain rub, never gets out of adjustment, and best of all, it handles my wide range gearing: 34-53 front, 11-36 rear without chain drop or missed shift. Battery charge lasts quite a while and is easy to check when putting the bike away. The new Shimano groupsets are interesting and will adorn my next bike, as will disk brakes, which I don’t now have. Maybe DurAce this time, mostly to show off, I guess.
Just amazing to see all the comments disparaging DI2 shifting. Maybe these folks are still using flip phones and drive manual cars. Some cannot come to grips with what is a most remarkable addition to road bike hardware. I am faster, smoother, easier and just having more fun when riding my bike with e-shifters. The young guys on my street all want one and are willing to put down the phones to ride my bike. The whole part of my brain that thinks about gears and shifting is free.
I am 30K miles into my e shifter and it works amazingly well. The charge lasts a long time and the occasional attention to hooking it up is far less then the time I have to think about and work on maintaining the chain, brakes etc….And it is just a matter of plugging it in and leaving it for a while. Easy peasy.
Warranty. I say 5 years on parts. I am disappointed there will not be parts for future repairs of the mechanical derailleurs, but hey when was the last time I searched for parts for my cell phone, computer or my DI2? NEVER. Advances in electronics and tech make things obsolete. Such will be the case with DI2. It just gets better and better. Price? Expensive but like a new cell phone-worth it. (PS My 2 other bikes with Shimano mechanical shifters have also worked without repair for 10s of thousands of miles.)
And thanks for the video. Nice and smooth makes me want to repair my own DI2? Ha
Hey Jim,
I recently (2 years ago) went with Shimano Di2 on a new Trek Domane. I have 6 other bikes, with various Campy and Shimano systems. I am not convinced that electronic shifting is better than cables. 1) you can see/hear/ feel cables. Electronic: good luck fixing, and a substantial challenge to adjust. 2) With mechanical you know what you have – and if it doesn’t work it’s relatively easy to diagnose where the problem is. Not so with electronic) Electronic versus mechanical: needs battery (i.e. dies at some point) versus it works as long as you do….4) cost: (I bet this is why the industry is going this way)- mechanical cheaper to fix when broken than electronic.
I really don’t see much of a performance advantage from the electronic shifting. That’s a big bummer. As a rider, and also a devoted mechanic to being able to maintain my bikes, I say, PLEASE CONTINUE TO OFFER MECHANICAL shifting systems.
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on electric shifting!
Jim Langley
First off, let me say: I have owned a bicycle shop since 1986, and when I put together a new bike for myself an can pretty much outfit it with whatever components I desire, and get everything at wholesale.
Four years ago, at age 71 and approaching semi-retirement (I still do tuneups/wheel builds by appointment), I decided to order a new semi-custom steel randonneuring bike. I wanted wide-range gearing, a triple crank, all Shimano, and wanted bullet-proof reliability. If anything went wrong on the road, I wanted to be able to fix it with a few simple tools. This is why I vetoed the idea of Di2 shifting, though it does work great. What mix did I use? SON Deluxe dyno front hub, Ultegra 10spd rear hub spaced for 9spd, Sugino Super Alpina triple crank, a late 1990s XTR SGS rear derailleur, and an early 1990s XTR mountain front derailleur. Both operated with (are you ready???) 9spd Dura Ace downtube shifters. The entire setup is simple, easy for on the road adjustment, and has been absolutely trouble-free over the past 4 years. Shifting has been so easy, except for the occasional front derailleur trim, I’d never change over to a more “modern” setup.
To me, the point is: I ride to ride, not have to deal with hard-or-impossible-to-service components just to be “modern.” Not keeping up with anyone else, only myself.
Questions about longevity of a Shimano product from someone wearing a Praxis t-shirt. Lol.
I beg your pardon, Sam, but this Praxis T-shirt is holding up just fine plus is super comfy 😉
I’ve had Di2 on at least one bike since late 2014. I love it! I started with the 1st gen Ultegra. I upgraded it with D-Fly in 2016. I’ve replaced pretty much everything on it and now have another bike with Di2 DuraAce. I’ve put a lot of miles on the first bike. Before I installed D-Fly, I’d bent the FD cage during a shift… that little motor is POWERFUL! I had it in synchro, and didn’t realize what gear I was in and it shifted hard under load. With D-Fly, I get a warning when it’s about to shift chainrings. Also bent the RD when the bike got knocked over, so I had to replace that.
It works great at all times. Sure, charging is a downside, but it only takes an hour. The other downside is that it allows you to make bad shifts; not like the old friction days, when you to actually learn how to shift. I hate to admit it, but I also have a couple of bikes with cable shifters, and I really miss the electronic when I ride one of them.
The bicycle market is flooded with products and is a replacement-only market which is why I can own so many used bicycles :-). There are probably 5B bicycles worldwide and Shimano probably thinks they can obsolete them faster with Di2 than by trying to innovate in mechanical shifting which is 80Y old (since the Nivex derailleur of the 1940’s).
I am appalled that a front derailleur would last only 10Y, usually the cage wears through but in this case the electronics went bad? What is the explanation? Is it trimming 2x as often as a normal human, i.e. for every single shift whereas most front derailleurs need to be trimmed every 2-4 gears only? I wonder …
Maybe we are ALL thinking about this in the wrong way!
The Internal-Combustion Engined car is today looking very much like a horse-drawn carriage! A hopeless anachronism of the past!
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/30/battery-developments-in-the-last-decade-created-a-seismic-shift-that-will-play-out-in-the-next-10-years.html
So the question is not “Electronic Shifting vs. Manual Shifting”
The question is more like, “Electronics Shifting vs ANY shifting AT ALL!”
E-bikes don’t need gears (my tesla model 3 has NONE) and so Shimano’s in a bid to save its own ass with these products, otherwise they will die the Way Toyota is committing Hari-kari by completely ignoring battery-operated cars!
FD’s are wear out parts, if you ride enough. I’ve replaced Campy, Shim, SRAM, mechanical and Di2. You can get good used ones on eBay or in your local shop’s parts been.
I’ve had an ultegra di2 that worked flawlessly for a couple years until last year when the battery wouldn’t hold a charge more then 3 days, the bike was in and out the the shop for most of the year swapping out the suspected components with replacement parts dribbled through the supply chain until finally finding out that the right shift lever was the culprit. Shimano covered it all under warranty
Concur, that’s good durability. The Di2 I installed in 2014 on a 2012 Domane is still perfect and now on a titanium Enigma Evade.
I picked SRAM Red eTap for my travel bike with S&S couplers. The only cable splitter is for the rear brake. However, in the 2 1/2 years since I bought it, the rear derailleur has been replaced 3 times! The first shop said that he heard there were issues with the seals, but I never got an official explanation.
If the forecast calls for any possibility of rain, I’ll have to drag out my old bike. The Dura-Ace 9-speed shifters / levers / derailleurs have worked flawlessly since 2001, except for one crash, my fault.
FYI – this was 11-speed. I’ve heard the new AXS 12 is much more reliable.
Good to know! Thanks for posting.
I’ve been riding with a SRAM Red Etap AXS 12 speed for a little over a year. I have badly arthritic wrists and was pretty much unable to shift the FD after 30-45 mins of riding. Etap solved that problem and I’m riding more and more comfortably than in the last several years. Other benefits for me include being able to stay in my ‘power zone’ with a compact crank and the close ratio 12 speed (10-28). All very helpful for a 71 year old!
Never had a battery problem; just charge’em up the first of the month.
Folks, did most of you witness the many dropped chains in the pro peloton on Shimano-equipped Di2 bikes at this year’s Tour and Vuelta – shocking actually. Add to this the fact that a few riders were seen kicking their read derailleurs in an effort to get them to work correctly. I know that 85% of the peloton uses Shimano equipment so any problems seen are likely to be seen on bikes using their equipment. However, I never saw a Campy or Sram-equipped bike standing along side a rider on the shoulder of the road waiting for a team car to come to replace the bike. What is going on with Shimano’s Dura-Ace stuff?
worn out! ha, my 7 speed downtube shifters and 600 derailleurs are still going strong at 65,000 miles and 21 years
one thing i do NOT want is another thing to keep charged
even on the bike i already have a blinker and headlight to worry about
at least i can still get up a hill if one of them flames out
no thanks
the only worse thing would be “we have a new windows-based shifting system!”
or ”we send cell text messages from the handlebars to the derailleurs, so you can shift from 10,000 miles away!”