Jim’s Tech Talk
By Jim Langley
Earlier this year I spent nearly $100 (including tax) for a single Continental Grand Prix 5000 Tubeless road tire. That’s so much money, it makes me not want to even ride on it for fear of hitting a piece of glass I don’t see and potentially ruining the tire – maybe on the first ride (because, it has happened to me before).
The way I deal with this is by using my best rubber only on my race bikes. And those only hit the road when I’m competing. All the rest of my riding – the vast majority – is done on training bikes. And all those rigs have “training tires” on them.
Training Tires
What defines a “training tire?” For me, it has to ride well in all weather and on all road surfaces. It has to resist flats and last for a good long time. I hope to get 1,500 miles (2,414K) out of rear training tires, or translated to training, about a couple of long months of 150+ mile weeks.
Plus, and to me this is almost as important as the attributes just mentioned, a good trainer tire has to be as affordable as possible. I look for rubber that’s no more than $30 a tire. That way should I hit that chunk of glass and slice a tire beyond repair, it’s no big deal.
Schwalbe’s Luganos
With these things in mind, I’d like to point out the tires I’ve been running on my training bike for over a year now, Schwalbe’s Luganos – the folding versions with a weight of about 325 grams. Ranging from less than $20 to upwards of $30 a piece depending on how much searching I do – they’ve proven to be an excellent value for my riding.
Just so there’s no confusion, since I mentioned the Conti TL 5000 tubeless tire, I want to make it clear that the Lugano tires are regular clinchers. They are not tubeless or tubeless-ready tires.
Durable Tires
Here are three photos showing a new tire and my front and rear Lugano treads after approximately 1,500 miles. While my front shows signs of tread wear, the rear is ready for replacement. I’m already pushing my luck as the casing is starting to appear through the worn out tread spots.
I’m happy with how long the rear lasted and how evenly it’s worn. I don’t expect the front to wear out for maybe another 1,500 miles.
Knock on wood, but I haven’t had a single flat on my 700 x 25c versions. Schwalbe Luganos feature their K-Guard flat protection, and it works well. The tires are also available in 28c from Schwalbe and it looks like they may have offered 23c and 32cs also since some show up searching for them.
Versatile Tread
I haven’t tried other widths because my Cervelo S5 is an aero road bike with super tight clearances. On this cross country trip I’ve mentioned the last two Tech Talks, I’ve been riding on more dirt roads than usual because they’re the only safe routes to take.
I ran into a guy in a pickup on one of these backroads. He obviously knew something about bikes because he stopped in the road, leaned out his window and said, “Mighty skinny tires for a dirt road.”
Made me laugh, but while definitely skinny, the Luganos work fine in the dirt and even gravel. They’re not going to compete with a knobby cross or gravel tire, but for just rolling along I have had no issues.
Nice Ride Quality
I’m running Schwalbe’s Aerothan tubes in these tires, which makes the Luganos ride even more nicely than with the butyl tubes I had in them before the Aerothans became available. If you haven’t heard of the Aerothans, they’re one of the new crop of ultra expensive, superlight and small thermoplastic polyurethane (TPU) tubes. I reviewed them here recently: https://www.roadbikerider.com/schwalbe-aerothan-super-tubes-review/.
With both standard butyl and the new TPU tubes, the Lugano tires have a nice road feel. They’re reasonably supple for a narrow clincher, hold their speed well and hang tight in the corners. In the rain the tires still track fine and grip – even the rear tire still grips and it’s just about worn out now.
The Luganos have 50 thread per inch casings, which is a relatively low TPI compared to higher end and more expensive rubber. But, I haven’t had any trouble with road vibration from the tires such as numb hands.
Overall, I think Schwalbe’s Lugano tires are excellent performing treads at a bargain price and recommend them highly. Oh, I almost forgot, they’re easy to install and remove, too.
Your Turn
If like me, you spend most of your time on training tires and you have another great tire value to recommend, please comment and share it with your fellow roadies.
Ride total: 10,067
Jim Langley is RBR’s Technical Editor. He has been a pro mechanic and cycling writer for more than 40 years. He’s the author of Your Home Bicycle Workshop in the RBR eBookstore. Check out his “cycling aficionado” website at http://www.jimlangley.net, his Q&A blog and updates at Twitter. Jim’s cycling streak ended in February 2022 with a total of 10,269 consecutive daily rides (28 years, 1 month and 11 days of never missing a ride). Click to read Jim’s full bio.
I’ve had Conti Ultra Sports on a training bike for >1000 miles. No flats, decent ride, less than 30 bucks each on Amazon.
I have found that Hutchinson makes relatively inexpensive tires that seem to work well for me.
With respect to Schwalbe tires, I have had very bad experiences with them…some have been so bad (quality control?) that it was impossible to even mount them on rims of compatible size without blowing them off (even my LBS said that they could not mount them)…diameter seemed to be greater than it should have been. On other occasions, I have had new tires blow off while riding (and they were mounted correctly). If one googles “Schwalbe tire blow off” if appears that others have had similar issues with these tires.
Just my experience as others seem to have had good experience with them.
Thanks for the feedback, Walt. Regarding those things, I haven’t had any issues with Schwalbe’s Lugano tires re size problems or blowing off.
Thanks again,
Jim
That’s funny because you and I have had the exact opposite thing happen, I’ve had fantastic success with Schwalbe tires but Hutchinson’s were the worst tires I’ve ever had in over 40 years of riding bikes. I had the tread cap come off on a brand new set of tires I got within 150 miles of riding on them, I contacted Hutchinson about 2 dozen times and never got a response…yes, I checked my junk mail too. I will never buy another Hutchinson tire.
Can’t afford / don’t do enough riding to justify a training bike &/or training tires. Most of my riding is social group rides. With tubeless I don’t flat and have to hold up the group while I change tubes. I’ve got almost 4,000 miles on the Conti 5000s so far and no cord showing. Wear holes are still visible. Yes they are expensive, but on a cost per mile the rate comes down for the kind of riding I do. Thanks for all the information over the years Jim! It’s hard to have too much knowledge. Keep riding!
Thanks a lot, William. I like your concept of cost-per-mile for tires! I think all tire companies should adopt it and add an average cost per mile for each model – wouldn’t that be great?
Absolutely, I have been running Conti 4000 and regularly get 4000 miles before both wear indicators disappear.
After years of experimenting with various brands of tires, (recreational club rides,) I always return to the Continental Grand Prix 4-Season Road Tire. For a few years, the Continental Grand Prix 4000 was the choice; good cornering, smooth ride, but they were vulnerable to punctures, even with their Vectran puncture protection. The Grand Prix 4-Season tire also rolls and corners well, and has been almost bullet-proof for me. They also won’t break your bank; often on sale for under $50.
+1 on the Conti 4 seasons. I’ve ridden nothing else for several years. I don’t keep track of mileage but I’m sure that I get way more than 1500 on rear tires.
I ride training tires exclusively and have had very good luck (no f-l-a-t-s) on Maxxis ReFuse clinchers.
Just replaced my Conti 4 seasons. It had been installed new in front, and transferred to the rear with a total of 9600 klm.
Tires keep changing all the time and it’s difficult to keep up. I too hate spending more than $30 a tire so I wait for sales then stock up.
So Jim Langley likes the Luganos but 1,500 miles seems a bit on the shorter end for a training tire? I typically get 2,000 miles. Anyway what are your guys thoughts on Specialized Roubaix Pro and the Vittoria Corsa Control. I have been buying the Specialized Roubiax Pro tires because they were $40 a piece which on sale I would get 2 for $60, but Specialized raised their prices a lot so now they’re $70 each which is why I’m considering the Vittoria Corsa Pro Control tire
I’ve also emailed Schwalbe a couple of times concerning their Aerothan tubes with the question about flat repair using their stick on patches, is the patch permanent or is it a temporary fix to get home then you throw the tube away? I don’t want to be throwing away a $40 tube after every flat, and I think $80 for a pair of tubes is insane so in order for me to become that insane I want to know about what happens after you repair a flat! I also emailed other companies making similar tubes with the same question, I haven’t heard back from any of them.
Thanks, Fred. For what it’s worth, if I can ever get some of the Schwalbe patches I will let you know whether they work. So far, I have not had a flat on my Aerothans. So they haven’t needed patching.
Thanks,
Jim
I’m just riding paved roads and have gone through the Continental line from grand pris , 3000, 4000, 4000s , 4000s2 and now 5000 , all with tubes. The 5000 is disappointingly harder to mount by hand but doable with effort. I refuse to ride any tires I have to use levers to install. If you can manage to avoid cuts they all will go 3,4, even 5000 miles before cord shows. And even though I like the presence of local bike shops, it’ll be a cold day in hell before I pay $100 for a tire. They are readily available in tubeless on line for $50.
Thanks, Dave. I agree that all tires should be able to be put on by hand and that $100 is too much for a tire.
Appreciate the comment,
Jim
I love my Rene Herse 35 tubeless for a great road feel but like Jim I don’t like the high price. Any opinions on a reasonable to tubeless?
You’re looking at inexpensive tires ($30), then fill it with a very expensive tube ($30). I’m missing the logic of that transaction. I bought a pair of Continental 5000s in April for $129. Pretty much the same price as your recommendation.
Thanks, Bob. It’s a common “trick” to use a superior tube with a training tire to get an even nicer ride. The idea is to save money on the pricier of the two items – the tire. For a long time we’ve used latex tubes to do that. Now, these new TPU tubes are proving to perform similar to latex while also holding their pressure.
Actually, if you think about it. cyclists have been using that same “trick” other ways, such as putting in better brake inner cables to improve the feel of ordinary brakes or better pulleys on budget rear derailleurs and I bet you can think of other examples.
I hope this helps explain,
Jim
I did that with my 105 equipped Lynskey, I had the original standard Shimano cables taken off when they wore out and had Dura Ace 9000 cables installed, now I can’t tell the difference in the feel between my 105 and DA components. It’s a great hack to improve 105 or even some lower grade components like Tiagra and Sora, or even Claris to maybe feel like 105?
But like I said, till I learn more about TPU tubes and how long the stick on patches hold up I’m not buying them, so that’s one hack that I’m going to wait to see if they are a success or a major fail when it comes to patching.
I regularly get around 4,000 miles out of a Coni GP 5000 rear tire. That’s to the point of the casing just about to show (as measured by the Conti “wear dots”) Tire wear is a function of power transfer through the tire, so a more powerful rider will wear out tires faster.. Front tires DO NOT wear out, if your definition of wearing out is rubber loss. I have put over 6,000 miles on a front tire with no measurable rubber loss. A worn tire typically loses 30 gm or more before it’s done, obviously dependent on how thick the tread is.
Thanks a lot, Kerry. That’s helpful information.
Jim
1500 miles is not good durability in my experience. That’s what the Michelin racing tires have I think.
Agree 100% that training tires should be reasonable cost. It is NOT just tread wear cost/mile but also the very real risk of road hazard destroying a tire early in its tread life. I run Conti GP’s on my ‘event’ bike, but too $$$ for everyday use IMHO (road hazard $$ loss after just 200 miles of use is not my idea of a good day!).
My fav training clincher had been the prior generation Rubino Pro slick (excellent durability and typically got 3-4 k miles on rear as a 175# rider on typically bad Midwest chip/seal roads) and bought several when othey were being closed-out. I’m now down to my last ones & looking for new go-to trainer. Not sold on Vittoria’s RP redesign. NOT a fan of Conti’s UltraSport (puncture-prone) or their Gatorskins ($$$ & too slow rolling though very durable). May give the Luganos a try.
Thank Jim for sharing your real world experience (inc. photos)!
I moved from model to model over the years, but I too bought a bunch or Rubino Pro Slick a couple of years ago, making this about 6 years as my go to tire. Great price, rarely issues with flats, no construction issues, and good mileage. Also purchased tubeless ready rims a couple of years ago but haven’t made that jump yet — I like the Rubino Pro Slick too much.
Thanks, John – I have ridden Vittoria Rubino Pro Slicks, too and liked them a lot. If you try the Luganos let me know what you think.
Thanks!
Jim
I have been using Gatorskins and Specialized Armadillos on the winter and training bike. The Bontrager R3 & R4 road tires are for special occasions.
Interesting comments here. I have used Conti II 4000+ and at present I’m running Clement Strada LGG 700X25 which are pretty good for my riding Not sure of distance but estimate of 1750km with no punctures.
One thing that isn’t mentioned in any of the comments above is rotating the tyres What i do is when the rear wears out put the front on the rear and the new one the front.
My reasoning is that its done on cars so why not on my bike.
“One thing that isn’t mentioned in any of the comments above is rotating the tyres What i do is when the rear wears out put the front on the rear and the new one the front. My reasoning is that its done on cars so why not on my bike.”
Well, you may be in for a surprise….
“Should New Tires Go on the Front or Back? According to Tire Review, new tires should always go in the back. Rear tires provide the vehicle stability, and if they have little tread, then stability is lost.”
That is true regards stability and tread bust as io see it the front tyre jas worn but there still is enough trad to prorvide what safety traction needed to be safe.because the rear tyre worn well passed the wear on the front and is still providing what is needed. Often times it is replaced when the fabric shows through.
What ever works for you…I was commenting on your reference to auto tires…most tire shops will only put 2 new tires on the rear due to reason stated
Fair enough now I understand. Here in Aussieland tyres are rotated 10-15km to facilitate even wear but what that means it that 4 tyres have to be purchased each time.
Unlike cars, on bikes the best condition tire should ALWAYS go on the front of a bike. A sudden flat on a front bike tire at speed is MUCH more likely to result in a crash due to loss of steering & braking control. OTOH- the bike can often be steered to a controlled stop after flatting a rear tire.
Personally- I do not rotate my bike tires. But when my rear tire wears out I move the existing front tire to the rear and put the new tire on the front.
yeah i don;t think tires really matter that much
especially if the expensive ones are more prone to flats
how fast is a ride that takes 20 minutes out to fix a flat?
Since about 2013 when I saw Maxxis Re-Fuse reviewed on DCrainmakers website who said very little about them except its a tyre that keeps rolling, they have been my tyre of choice. Very grippy in wet and dry, but not that fast though compared to a Conti GP4000. Its very rare to puncture until they are almost worn out. On average, I get around 3000 to 3500 miles out of them on the rear. But, if I move the front to the rear when the rear is worn out and just replace the front with a new one, I get from 5000 to 7000 miles out of it instead of 3000 to 3500. Prices vary with them though, they can hold a high price or very cheap about £19 but I find them hard to get hold of these days so I always keep an eye out for them and keep a good stock of them. Twice I have ridden Paris Brest Paris on them, 1500+ miles and not one puncture to fix. On one 400 Audax, I finished, I had a very bad gash in my tyre that had almost removed an whole square inch off the outer laminate and exposed the inner puncture proof belt and it still did not puncture, I presume I had rode over a large piece of broken bottle in the dark to do that much damage. On Youtube, someone demonstrates riding over broken bottles and they do not puncture and they get a big gash too in the process.
Another tyre that has impressed me lately, I only tried them as they came on my new bike, Bontrager R1. I have done almost 4000 miles on them, they still look almost brand new with hardly any sign of wear and only one puncture in mid Winter when roads were bad. But, I have had to switch back to the Maxxis Re-Fuse as they are very sluggish when you climb hills and lose you a lot of time, on the flat, they are as fast as the Maxxis, but on the hills, they are like riding through wet tar. Its probably because they only pump up to 70psi and when your riding up a hill, you see them bulge out and then slowly flex back. But, other than that, they are good for long days out on the flat and at only about £17.99, they are ideal and I believe they are only supposed to be a budget commuting tyre. But, for my long flat events, these will be my tyre of choice as I get the additional comfort of them being low pressure. The ones I use are 32’s and I think the smallest they make are 28’s which is what I will try next when I wear the 32’s out.