Jim’s Tech Talk
By Jim Langley
As we wrap-up the year, I want to reply to a comment that was posted back in June. I would have done so earlier but I only saw it this weekend because the comment was left on a page on our website that I rarely check. But it’s a good query worth sharing and I bet some of you may want to add your experience and recommendations.
The question came from Tom Wojcik, who wrote:
Jim, I had a question that I thought you might be able to answer on behalf of myself and many others who find themselves having to replace Campagnolo drivetrain components.
It seems logical to me that the back end of your bike should remain consistent (e.g. I am aware that you should not try to use SRAM or Shimano components on a bike equipped with Campy – cassette, derailleur, etc.). But, I have trouble seeing how a Campagnolo front shifter would be unable to deal with a Shimano or SRAM chainring group, with a compatible chain (e.g. 11-speed chain for an 11-speed cassette/rear derailleur).
Is not the key factor the ability of the front derailleur to move the chain between the 2 chainrings? and therefore, whether it’s a Campy or a SRAM ring should make no difference?
On the same topic, it seems to me the width of the chain is the limiting factor – therefore you could use an 11-speed SRAM or Shimano chain on an 11-speed Campy gruppo.
Does the same apply in reverse? i.e. if all you have on hand are 11-speed chains, is there a reason you could not use them on an older 10-speed system?
My Reply
I’ll answer your last question first, Tom. Yes, most 11-speed chains are reverse-compatible with 10-speed systems. And 10-speed with 9-speed and so on. The concern would be that because the chains are narrower they might fall in-between the chainrings during shifts. But, 10-speed and 11-speed cranksets have about the same width between rings so it works fine.
Regarding compatibility between different brand and model cranksets and chainrings, Campagnolo, Shimano, SRAM and most other makers design into their rings, ramps, gates, pins and other features to optimize the shifting (photo). They do this for their components though, not for other brands’ components.
So, if you swap out another brand’s chainring or a complete crank, you’re taking a chance that you might risk balky shifting or maybe even a thrown chain or worse.
However, with the parts shortages of the last couple of seasons, many bike companies have been forced to substitute cranksets from other makers. And that demand incentivized those makers to ensure their cranks played nicely with that other company’s components. So, cross compatibility is possible a lot of the time.
Still, if I were you I would do a little homework to ensure what you’re thinking of changing out to will work properly.
A good resource in my experience is my friend Lennard Zinn, framebuilder, tech guru and author over at VeloNews. If you Google whatever component compatibility question you’ve got you’ll often find that he has tried it and said whether it works or not.
What would you tell Tom?
Readers, if you’re riding Campagnolo components and have successfully (or unsuccessfully) mixed in other brand drivetrain components, please share what you’ve found with Tom. Thanks!
Jim Langley is RBR’s Technical Editor. A pro mechanic & cycling writer for more than 40 years, he’s the author of Your Home Bicycle Workshop in the RBR eBookstore. Tune in to Jim’s popular YouTube channel for wheel building & bike repair how-to’s. Jim’s also known for his cycling streak that ended in February 2022 with a total of 10,269 consecutive daily rides (28 years, 1 month and 11 days of never missing a ride). Click to read Jim’s full bio.
Good morning.
As someone who uses Campagnolo equipment, I can’t help but wonder if Campagnolo has begun the process of shutting down completely or leaving the bicycle components market. In my opinion, what I’m observing/experiencing, doesn’t lend itself fully to supply chain explanations. Perhaps I’m wrong and would be pleased to be wrong. Could someone on the Road Bike Rider staff provide informed insight into Campagnolo’s behavior and plans?
Thank you.
I have no reason to believe anything’s other than business as usual at Campagnolo, Richard. What are you experiencing or observing that makes you think something’s wrong?
Jim
A Campy mechanical front derailleur doesn’t operate with the “slam-bang” shifting of Shimano, but functionally is a click-friction shifter. As a result it will have zero difficulties shifting any crank set and combination of chain rings.
Just wondering if Sram Red 11 speed (110mm) chainrings will work on Sram Red 10 speed (110mm) cranks
Yes, R. But you should read SRAM’s official answer:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/technical-faq-follow-up-on-10-and-11-speed-compatibility/
Cheers,
Jim
Although I never hesitated to use chain by other manufacturers, or, actually, cogs or rings claiming to be Shimano compatible, I don’t think I’d have been daring enough to cross Campi and Shimano. Having said this, I can tell you that as my ten speed Dura Ace did the Shimano death descent, I slowly watered down my drive to the point where I run a mix of Shimano components – from the original Dura Ace, to Ultegra, to 105. Perhaps my admittedly mediocre tune up skills are actually the problem, I cannot get this menagery of Shimano 10 speed parts to shift perfectly throughout the full range. I could imagine a Campi/Shimano mix having similar problems. Not totally incompatible, but definitely less than shop tuned, new drive of one brand.
As long as the parts are all compatible with each other, you should be able to get them to work properly, John. So if they won’t, it’s probably either something is not compatible or your adjustments aren’t right.
Jim
I have never had a lot of success reading/following compatibility charts and suggestions. I have a fairly large selection of parts on hand and I find the best solution is “try it” and if it works, great…if not, then I need to try something else.
One word of caution based on experience…if one is changing a part because of an accident or a worn out part which has caused shifting issues (often the case when someone asks me to fix a problem), then if a parts mix does not work, it may not be a compatibility issue but rather something else (another worn part or something bent or something not aligned properly).
Sorry Jim….your 12;46 pm post arrived while I was typing mine….you highlighted the point I was trying to make.
No worries, Walt. Thanks for sharing your tips too, appreciate it!
Jim
I have been using my Campy wheels with my SRAM Force components without any issues. 10 speed is 10 speed after all The differences are so minor I don’t see any problems, at least cassette and chain compatibility. Of course I started riding 45 years ago using friction shifters, so minor prob lems don’t bother me.
I’ve had no compatibility/shifting issues using 11 speed Ultegra cassettes with a full Campagnolo drivetrain. If this helps anyone.
Note: I should have also mentioned that the Ultegra 11 speed cassette compatibility was contingent on the Campagnolo drivetrain also being 11 speed (Record, Chorus, Potenza, Athena, Centaur).
Cheers,
Shaun
Good day, Jim.
Thanks for your reply.
For example: Most of my historical sources now offer few or any Campagnolo equipment, replacement parts, or consumables. Furthermore, they don’t indicate that these items will be available in the future (i.e. “temporarily out of stock”). I’ve noticed that some of the major wheel builders no longer offer their wheels with Campagnolo compatible freehubs, which is also concerning.
Generally, from my perspective, Campagnolo seems to have disappeared from the radar screen. However, I have no contact with or within the bicycle industry, and that’s why I presented my original question. If those who are closely connected with the bicycle industry see that Campagnolo is doing fine, then, perhaps, it is indeed just supply chain problems.
Happy new year.
All my best.
Thanks for explaining more, Richard. It looks to me like Campagnolo is still available online from the companies that have carried it right along. Also, it’s even on Amazon now. I think any out of stock issues are likely due to demand outstripping supply or that source being sold out. When I run into those messages I broaden my search and can usually find the store that has what I need in stock. Not always but a lot of the time. For example, with Shimano components, those are often out of stock but if you look on Amazon you usually find that they’re there in Shimano’s Amazon store.
Hope this helps,
Jim
As somebody who has stubbornly kept my 9-speed drivetrain going for 20 years, I can certainly sympathize with compatibility issues between manufacturers as well between generations. As a result, my bike is now a mix of Japanese, USA, Italian, Taiwanese, and French components that somehow work together.
Fortunately, none of my mounting points are proprietary, which allowed me to keep going. An English-threaded bottom bracket shell, downtube shifter bosses, and external cup head tube makes it easier to mix components and find spare parts. Plus barely used or NOS cassettes are common on eBay.
My best kludge fix to date: Old Campy 11 (pre-2015?) shifts Shimano/SRAM 9. The Campy Chorus shifters were cheaper than NOS Ultegra! I also can confirm that the front shifter is not true index; on one crank, it took only 2 clicks to shift, but on a replacement it took 3. Good enough for me!
Follow up: I meant that Campy 11 will shift Shimano/SRAM cassettes with a Shimano rear mech. Not sure about SRAM mechs.